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Volume 29 : Issue 27 : "text" Format

Messages in this Issue:
 Re: at&t vs. Verizon TV ad campaign?
 Re: at&t vs. Verizon TV ad campaign?
 Lucent MLX phone behavior
 Re: at&t vs. Verizon TV ad campaign?
 Re: at&t vs. Verizon TV ad campaign?
 Re: at&t vs. Verizon TV ad campaign?
 Re: at&t vs. Verizon TV ad campaign?

====== 28 years of TELECOM Digest -- Founded August 21, 1981 ====== Telecom and VOIP (Voice over Internet Protocol) Digest for the Internet. All contents here are copyrighted by Patrick Townson and the individual writers/correspondents. Articles may be used in other journals or newsgroups, provided the writer's name and the Digest are included in the fair use quote. By using -any name or email address- included herein for -any- reason other than responding to an article herein, you agree to pay a hundred dollars to the recipients of the email. =========================== Addresses herein are not to be added to any mailing list, nor to be sold or given away without explicit written consent. Chain letters, viruses, porn, spam, and miscellaneous junk are definitely unwelcome. We must fight spam for the same reason we fight crime: not because we are naive enough to believe that we will ever stamp it out, but because we do not want the kind of world that results when no one stands against crime. Geoffrey Welsh =========================== See the bottom of this issue for subscription and archive details and the name of our lawyer, and other stuff of interest.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 07:38:37 -0800 From: Sam Spade <sam@coldmail.com> To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org. Subject: Re: at&t vs. Verizon TV ad campaign? Message-ID: <20E7n.3617$aU4.2180@newsfe13.iad> Wesrock@aol.com wrote: > > In Tulsa because of W.E. backlogs, W.E. arranged to get a badly needed > 5XB machine for an overloaded end office and the Oklahoma Chief > Engineer said the only difference between it and W.E. equipment was > the Northern Electric gear was painted beige instead of the dull blue > of W.E. equipment. > > Wes Leatherock > wesrock@aol.com > wleathus@yahoo.com > There is not a lot of similarity between a 5ESS and a DMS-100, other than they are both time-division end office switches. Both the hardware and the software of the 5ESS were far superior in the early days when a lot of this stuff was being installed. The 5ESS Centrex platform was the finest to ever come out of W.E./Lucent. The DMS-100 Centrex platform had programming errors and didn't meet specs. The porting capability of the 5ESS was far superior to the DMS-100 and, for that matter, the 1AESS. The single problem with the 5ESS is that it cost significantly more than the DMS-100. But, the two switches were really the only game in town for a metro switch that could field all the services and also be a host to remote switches, where necessary. When the money was still flowing I recall Rochester Telephone installing only 5ESSes. They stated at the time that the extra cost was worth it, especially for a smallish independent that could focus on one deployment and maintence plan, and provide uniformly superior local exchange service, especially to their corporate accounts. I guess hardly anyone buys Centrex these days.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 11:09:28 -0800 From: Thad Floryan <thad@thadlabs.com> To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org. Subject: Re: at&t vs. Verizon TV ad campaign? Message-ID: <4B5F3DE8.6040104@thadlabs.com> On 1/26/2010 7:38 AM, Sam Spade wrote: > [...] > I guess hardly anyone buys Centrex these days. I wonder why? For a small company it was a very effective choice. I ordered a Centrex system for a 20-person startup in 2000 and it served and scaled well until the company reached 100 people at which time I ordered/switched to a Nortel BCM system (a PBX). The BCM was really nice, had the best voice mail system I had ever seen and used up to that time, and would have continued to serve that company except for the fact the 10th CEO (in 6 years) ordered me to remove it and replace it with his crap VoIP company's service and that was the downfall of that company. Yes, he (the CEO) was part-owner of some crap VoIP outfit in Georgia IIRC and the changeover in phone service was only one symptom of the problems leading to that company's downfall; the other major symptom was tech and QA outsourcing to India -- B-I-G misteak (sic). >From that point on (2006), I only installed and setup Asterisk VoIP systems and those were/are the best systems I've ever had the pleasure of using though the equipment was pricey (mostly the Cisco 7960 telephones and, when required, PoE-capable LAN switches (even the used/refurbished ones I'd buy/install)).
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 09:55:48 -0600 From: Michael Grigoni <michael.grigoni@cybertheque.org> To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org. Subject: Lucent MLX phone behavior Message-ID: <4B5F1084.3040502@cybertheque.org> I just acquired a Lucent MLX-10DP phone but don't have a compatible Merlin system; I plugged it into a Merlin Plus (820D) and subsequently found a description of the RJ-45 pin assignments which showed that power (-48VDC) is on pair 4 for MLX as opposed to pair 3 for ATL phones. Later I supplied -48VDC to the correct pair to the MLX phone but even though internally I can read 5VDC on various parts, the LCD remains blank and no LEDs light. Should there be any sign of life with just DC applied? I have a suspicion that the phone was defective beforehand but would like to know how a good one should behave with only DC and no other signals applied to it. Also how likely are the station ports on the 820D into which the MLX was plugged to have been damaged by it? It would seem unlikely unless 48V were somehow looped back to the control pair. TIA, Michael
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 08:45:19 GMT From: sfdavidkaye2@yahoo.com (David Kaye) To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org. Subject: Re: at&t vs. Verizon TV ad campaign? Message-ID: <hjma2v$n1s$3@news.eternal-september.org> pv+usenet@pobox.com (PV) wrote: >I think it's much more likely they confuse the "new AT&T" with what was >a not-so-popular cable, long distance, and mobility company. Nobody really >thinks about ma bell anymore. As someone else said, AT&T pre merger was a >pale shadow of itself, having sold off most of the good bits years prior. * Likewise, Verizon Wireless is not Verizon. They are two separate companies, VZW being 50% owned by Vodafone, which is a successor in interest to the old Pacific Bell Wireless (aka Airtouch). This probably accounts for the vast difference in service levels between VZ and VZW. I love VZW but I'd never have a landline phone with VZ.
Date: 26 Jan 2010 17:34:06 -0000 From: John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org. Subject: Re: at&t vs. Verizon TV ad campaign? Message-ID: <20100126173406.89949.qmail@simone.iecc.com> >Likewise, Verizon Wireless is not Verizon. They are two separate companies, >VZW being 50% owned by Vodafone Only 45%, which means they don't get to tell VZ what to do, unlike I think every other Vodafone wireless property in the world. Every few months there's an article in the financial press about how much they dislike each other. There's constant speculation that Vodafone might sell, although there's no plausible buyer other than VZ who has no incentive to offer a good price. R's, John
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 08:32:48 -0800 From: "Jack Myers" <jmyers@n6wuz.net> To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org. Subject: Re: at&t vs. Verizon TV ad campaign? Message-ID: <g2i337-bjh.ln1@n6wuz.net> Wesrock@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/25/2010 9:09:23 AM Central Standard Time, > jmyers@n6wuz.net writes > >> ... Initially [Western Electric / Lucent] received a windfall >> because each new LATA required a brand-new "equal access" tandem >> switch. > Certainly in Oklahoma it did not require new tandems - the Tulsa and > Oklahoma City 4A machines did the job. ... adding equal access > capabilities was indeed something new, but soluble. Point taken, and now I'm curious. What was the criterion for deciding whether to install a new #4ESS equal access tandem in a peer relation to existing metropolitan tandem switches? > They had to divest W.E., too. There was no legal requirement, was there? I seem to recall that there was a restriction prohibiting the local operating companies from manufacturing. In the late eighties they (the Baby Bells) started chafing at the bit, arguing that individually they each represented a small fraction of the local market so no harm would result if they got back into manufacturing. > By that time the Bell Companies were buying from various vendors > with a bid process, and with a slight anti-W.E. bias. What was the source of that bias? > Anyway, they made it work. Indeed. -- Jack Myers / Westminster, California, USA Postfix...a computer term meaning "sendmail is too hard for me" ***** Moderator's Note ***** Exim ... a computer term meaning "He got it right the first time"
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 14:03:01 -0800 (PST) From: hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com To: telecomdigestmoderator.remove-this@and-this-too.telecom-digest.org. Subject: Re: at&t vs. Verizon TV ad campaign? Message-ID: <155ee372-c15d-4bdc-b767-50f5b56ef191@e37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> On Jan 24, 10:46 pm, "Jack Myers" <jmy...@n6wuz.net> wrote: > Is it true that AT&T management had the opportunity to decide > whether to retain the local operating companies or everything else? It was a complicated situation. The old AT&T/Bell System was under attack from several quarters for a variety of reasons (many merely for self-interest): --Newcomer long distance carriers had no ability to offer superior service or price to AT&T long distance, which is the normal way a newcomer breaks into a marketplace. Still, they wanted to get into the market in a big way, so they forced the issue through the courts (which is ironic considering they claimed they wanted a 'free market'). --Newcomer manufacturers who wanted to sell subscriber (mostly toward businesses) and central office equipment. --Large subscribers, such as pipelines and large businesses, who wanted better discounts for toll service and to own their own equipment instead of renting it. --The existing telephone rate model, established by regulators and Congress long ago, decreed that large users would cross-subsidize the smallest users in the interest of providing universal service; that is, a bare-bones telephone line + telephone set would be available very cheaply. Large users simply didn't want to subsidize small users anymore. Since regulators and legislators liked the existing arrangement just fine (they saw cheap universal service it as being in the public interest), those who wanted change had to find an alternate way to achieve their purposes. --Consumer and government activists who merely felt the existing Bell System was "too big" and "evil" and thought it'd be 'better' to break it up. These various groups coalesced around a US Justice Department lawsuit to break up AT&T. AT&T eventually realized its chances in a lawsuit were not good and it would end up being broken up in some way. They decided to cut a deal with the Justice Dept to break up in the best way possible. But at the same time, AT&T wanted and received the ability to compete in open markets, such as computers; this was previously stricted forbidden to it. (In previous threads references to various books detailing the breakup were provided.) I believe AT&T had some choice in what parts of its business it could keep and what parts it had to give it up. Certain parts, such as the monopoly in long distance and ownership in subscriber equipment were lost. As mentioned, at the time, in my humble opinion, AT&T saw its long distance network and Western Electrics as key assets and the operating companies as not so desirable. At the time there was good reason for that: Costs to provide long distance service were declining thanks to new technology and there were new business opportunties thanks to data communications. However, costs to provide the "last mile" to a subscriber were not declining but increasing. Further, AT&T saw its long experience in network management as a key asset. One prediction that failed was the value of Western Electric. I suspect AT&T presumed telephone equipment would continue to be build super rugged and expensive (as another poster in this thread compared #5ESS vs DMS), and thus provide nice profits for WE who was an expert at building things that way. But subscribers focused on price--sure the WE 2500 set would give decades of trouble free service but it was expensive and boring while that crappy phone was dirt cheap and maybe cute. Operating companies were freed from old Bell System high service standards and cut costs--buying cheaper switches and other gear. I suspect Western Electric, as it evolved into Lucent, could not shift into the cheapo crap mode As an example, after Divesture staff was cut at a critical central office. The building caught fire, efforts were delayed, and area service was badly disrupted for some time. (Pat had spoken of this many times.) IMHO, the staff cutbacks were a direct result of Divesture, adding to the severity of the fire and service outage. > AT&T expected computer manufacturing to be the wave of the future, > and Western Electric was their captive manufacturer. Initially WE > received a windfall because each new LATA required a brand-new > "equal access" tandem switch. Actually, that's not true. Some LATAs did require new switchgear because the LATA was artificially drawn. But others did not. Equal access did not happen overnight; it took time to implement. Also, the cost of electronic equipment dropped tremendously after 1983. My guess is that Western Electric was unable to adopt to a lower cost model for its telephone or other products. > That played out and the new computer offerings were > unimpressive. Meanwhile the Canadian switching manufacturer, > Northern Telecom, and the competitive long-distance providers, GTE > Sprint and MCI, proved to be a strong competitors. Sprint and MCI were not "strong competitors". They did not offer superior service or a cheaper price. What they were strong at was litigation and lobbying. They managed to convince regulators and the court that "free competition" actually meant _restricting_ AT&T from competing. So MCI and Sprint mounted a cream skimming campaign and played silly rate games. Thanks to their lobbying efforts, AT&T remained under strict regulation and could not adjust its rates to meet competition, and of course had to continue to serve high cost low- revenue situations that Sprint and MCI just didn't bother with. As an example, way back then MCI and Sprint sued some govt agencies to force them to buy their services because "it was in the public interest". As mentioned, previously several source books documenting the above were cited. (If anyone would like to cite a book with a different point of view, please do so.) [public replies, please]
TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly to telecom- munications topics. It is circulated anywhere there is email, in addition to Usenet, where it appears as the moderated newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'. TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational service offered to the Internet by Bill Horne. All the contents of the Digest are compilation-copyrighted. You may reprint articles in some other media on an occasional basis, but please attribute my work and that of the original author. The Telecom Digest is moderated by Bill Horne. Contact information: Bill Horne Telecom Digest 43 Deerfield Road Sharon MA 02067-2301 781-784-7287 bill at horne dot net Subscribe: telecom-request@telecom-digest.org?body=subscribe telecom Unsubscribe: telecom-request@telecom-digest.org?body=unsubscribe telecom This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal about telecomm- unications on the Internet, having been founded in August, 1981 and published continuously since then. Our archives are available for your review/research. We believe we are the oldest e-zine/mailing list on the internet in any category! URL information: http://telecom-digest.org Copyright (C) 2009 TELECOM Digest. All rights reserved. Our attorney is Bill Levant, of Blue Bell, PA. --------------------------------------------------------------- Finally, the Digest is funded by gifts from generous readers such as yourself who provide funding in amounts deemed appropriate. Your help is important and appreciated. A suggested donation of fifty dollars per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above. Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing your name to the mailing list. All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages should not be considered any official expression by the organization.
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