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Message Digest Volume 28 : Issue 302 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: Re: Shrinking directories Re: Shrinking directories Re: White Pages may fall victim of technology Re: White Pages may fall victim of technology Re: White Pages may fall victim of technology Re: White Pages may fall victim of technology Re: Area code 533 assigned for personal communications services Re: Area code 533 assigned for personal communications services Re: White Pages may fall victim of technology Google Voice and Reciprocal Compensation on NPR Re: Google Voice and Reciprocal Compensation on NPR ====== 28 years of TELECOM Digest -- Founded August 21, 1981 ====== Telecom and VOIP (Voice over Internet Protocol) Digest for the Internet. All contents here are copyrighted by Patrick Townson and the individual writers/correspondents. Articles may be used in other journals or newsgroups, provided the writer's name and the Digest are included in the fair use quote. By using -any name or email address- included herein for -any- reason other than responding to an article herein, you agree to pay a hundred dollars to the recipients of the email. =========================== Addresses herein are not to be added to any mailing list, nor to be sold or given away without explicit written consent. Chain letters, viruses, porn, spam, and miscellaneous junk are definitely unwelcome. We must fight spam for the same reason we fight crime: not because we are naive enough to believe that we will ever stamp it out, but because we do not want the kind of world that results when no one stands against crime. Geoffrey Welsh =========================== See the bottom of this issue for subscription and archive details and the name of our lawyer, and other stuff of interest. Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 19:09:11 +1100 From: David Clayton <dcstar@NOSPAM.myrealbox.com> To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu Subject: Re: Shrinking directories Message-ID: <pan.2009.11.02.08.09.08.774531@NOSPAM.myrealbox.com> On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 17:39:14 -0800, Steven wrote: > Joseph Singer wrote: ........ >> When I arrived in Seattle back in 1993 the size of the white pages was >> about the same size as the yellow pages ([as I said], ~2.5") I'm >> guessing this is due to people forgoing their wire line phones and going >> wireless. I haven't had wire line service for 7.5 years. > > There are more listings per page then in the past. Isn't this whole issue just another step in the evolution of telecoms and the services associated with it? Paper directories were a solution to the problem that the growth of local phone services reached a point where the manual operators could not cope, so it became cost-effective to distribute to all customers their own "self-service" copy of the data. Now as access to on-line directories becomes ubiquitous, it is becoming more cost-effective to not have them delivered to everybody, only to those that actually need (and request) them. All the ancillary purposes that evolved from printed directories also have to evolve with the time, along with many other traditional things in this area that has always been using the newest technologies as they have arisen. 20 years ago not everybody had a computer, but they had a terminal at home that connected to a powerful computer network using state of the art technologies to provide a telephone service. Now some of the computing power is migrating to the end terminals people themselves have and the networks are also getting more powerful in coverage and capacity - who knows what things may be like in a few years time, perhaps these paper directories will be carried around in each terminal? -- Regards, David. David Clayton Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. Knowledge is a measure of how many answers you have, intelligence is a measure of how many questions you have. Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 13:56:49 -0800 From: Steven <diespammers@killspammers.com> To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu Subject: Re: Shrinking directories Message-ID: <hcnkj4$m59$1@news.eternal-september.org> David Clayton wrote: > 20 years ago not everybody had a computer, but they had a terminal > at home that connected to a powerful computer network using state of > the art technologies to provide a telephone service. Now some of the > computing power is migrating to the end terminals people themselves > have and the networks are also getting more powerful in coverage and > capacity - who knows what things may be like in a few years time, > perhaps these paper directories will be carried around in each > terminal? In 1984 GTE started to publish a directory for its cellular customers, it went over with a thud. -- The only good spammer is a dead one!! Have you hunted one down today? (c) 2009 I Kill Spammers, Inc., A Rot in Hell. Co. Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 08:15:35 +0000 (UTC) From: "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu Subject: Re: White Pages may fall victim of technology Message-ID: <hcm4f7$5jk$1@news.albasani.net> tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> wrote: >Steven <diespammers@killspammers.com> wrote: >>... >>AT&T has digital versions of their printed ones and [they] are showen >>like the printed ones. >>http://www.realpageslive.com/guide >That seems to be a Yellow Pages counterpart. >For the White Pages, a substitute might be AT&T's >http://www.anywho.com, >which also has Reverse Lookup and Yellow Pages functionality. This had been AT&T's residential listings, but isn't any longer. The Web site was sold, or perhaps licensed, to Intelius, an information consolidator and one of those companies that tries to steer directory users into paid searches, under a lot of names. Information consolidators do not strive for accuracy, always blaming inaccuracies on the sources they've purchased, which they will not name if one is trying to eliminate out of date or erroneous information about one's self from these directories. fwiw, Intelius does honor opt out requests submitted through Anywho, but those merely prevent searches through the Anywho interface and wouldn't apply to the numerous front ends to Intelius database. Its business listings are from yellowpages.com, an AT&T subsidiary. Now, Yellow Pages listings aren't as accurate nor up-to-date as a business white pages of telephone subscribers, but it's better than nothing. Searching isn't readily controlled by the user, which is deliberate. Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 05:56:24 -0800 From: Sam Spade <sam@coldmail.com> To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu Subject: Re: White Pages may fall victim of technology Message-ID: <cyBHm.11970$Ka2.4420@newsfe08.iad> tlvp wrote: > On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 13:19:46 -0400, Steven <diespammers@killspammers.com> > wrote: > >> ... >> AT&T has digital versions of their printed ones and [they] are showen >> like the printed ones. >> >> http://www.realpageslive.com/guide > > > That seems to be a Yellow Pages counterpart. > For the White Pages, a substitute might be AT&T's > > This brings up all the AT&T directories for the 48 states. Once you select the directory you want, then along the top there are tabs for business, residence, and government white pages, as well as guides: http://www.realpageslive.com/ Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 08:39:32 -0800 From: Steven <diespammers@killspammers.com> To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu Subject: Re: White Pages may fall victim of technology Message-ID: <hcn207$mnu$1@news.eternal-september.org> tlvp wrote: > On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 13:19:46 -0400, Steven <diespammers@killspammers.com> > wrote: > >> ... >> AT&T has digital versions of their printed ones and [they] are showen >> like the printed ones. >> >> http://www.realpageslive.com/guide > > That seems to be a Yellow Pages counterpart. > For the White Pages, a substitute might be AT&T's > > http://www.anywho.com, > > which also has Reverse Lookup and Yellow Pages functionality. > > Cheers, -- tlvp > -- > Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP > The realpageslive site is a digital version of White Pages and Yellow Pages. -- The only good spammer is a dead one!! Have you hunted one down today? (c) 2009 I Kill Spammers, Inc., A Rot in Hell. Co. Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 07:13:05 -0800 (PST) From: hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu Subject: Re: White Pages may fall victim of technology Message-ID: <8cd1b8db-88e4-422b-bf0e-14098a659363@15g2000yqy.googlegroups.com> On Nov 1, 10:50 am, Wesr...@aol.com wrote: > It was sometimes interesting the browse some phone books.  The ones > (5 volumes, I believe) from London, England, had a YP classificaiton > for "motor enginers".  After reading some of the ads, it seems that > was the cusage for what we call auto repair shops. I visited a large library that had a big collection, including books from small towns. Many of those places did not yet get DDD and the dialing instructions were quite austere. That is, to call other towns required various odd access codes, sometimes a wait for a second dial tone. The listings for the fire department had a list of the main firemen by name and their phone numbers. BTW, when the Bell System introduced discounts for dialed direct calls circa 1971, subscribers who didn't yet have it were charged the lower dialed direct rate. Or if anyone had trouble making a toll call and requested operator help, the lower rate applied. Not true today. Today, consumers have to fight like heck to get banks, credit card companies, phone companies, etc. to remove service charges that were the result of the company's error. Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 10:08:33 GMT From: sfdavidkaye2@yahoo.com (David Kaye) To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu Subject: Re: Area code 533 assigned for personal communications services Message-ID: <hcmb2s$vhd$1@news.eternal-september.org> Wesrock@aol.com wrote: > I can't imagine anyone would call a cell-only number to call a local > plumber, handyman, or any other outfit publishing such a number in > their advertisements. I make my living this way. I have yellow pages ads and only one phone, a cell phone. Nobody complains. -- "You're in probably the wickedest, most corrupt city, most Godless city in America." -- Fr Mullen, "San Francisco" Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 11:49:09 -0600 From: John Mayson <john@mayson.us> To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu Subject: Re: Area code 533 assigned for personal communications services Message-ID: <6645152a0911020949n6cb583e5nbdc0db9150e0e08c@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 4:08 AM, David Kaye <sfdavidkaye2@yahoo.com> wrote: > Wesrock@aol.com wrote: > >> I can't imagine anyone would call a cell-only number to call a local >> plumber, handyman, or any other outfit publishing such a number in >> their advertisements. > > I make my living this way. I have yellow pages ads and only one > phone, a cell phone. Nobody complains. How many would know? Various consumer protection agencies warn people against relying on businesses with only a cell phone number. The idea is you could be from out-of-town or fly-by-night. You didn't say which business you were in. On a professional level I've worked with sales professionals who have only a cell phone number, and that's fine. Back in March we had a huge hail storm here and roofing companies from all over flooded the area trying to drum up business. I had a guy with Missouri tags and a Georgia (770) phone number ask what the bids were I had received and he'd knock a little off. Various government officials via the media were warning people about these sort of operations. I knew a guy who had a glass and roofing business (he sold it years ago). He got a landline number and just forwarded it to a cell phone. John -- John Mayson <john@mayson.us> Austin, Texas, USA Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 10:44:43 EST From: Wesrock@aol.com To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu Subject: Re: White Pages may fall victim of technology Message-ID: <d36.57f702d5.3820586b@aol.com> In a message dated 10/31/2009 9:46:14 AM Central Standard Time, sam@coldmail.com writes: > >Adam H. Kerman wrote: > >> Really? Legislators can outlaw printed matter by declaring it >> garbage? Shudder >> >> I have complained about the indexing of on line directories before, >> which is designed to throw the maximum amount of advertising in my >> face and NOT to fulfill my search request exactly as I typed in the >> parameters. >> >> There is no current on line directory service as useful as a printed >> phone directory. The useful ones aren't on line any more. > > Legislating the the LEC cannot distribute the directory except to > those subscribers who request it is hardly outlawing printed matter. > > Let's face it, in this case it's the LECs who are the culprits, not > the nanny legislator. The LEC knows putting a viable, searchable > directory on-line will cut into their overpriced 411 directory > service. > > Those white page directories are a horrible waste of paper and > resources for the vast majority of subscribers. > > The LECs don't want to admit the existence of the Internet. ;-) AT&T in Oklahoma City and several other cities have made white (residential) pages available only on request, and in fact they make it difficult to make such a request (the request must be made by telephone only, not by e-mail or U.S. mail, and presumably you have to wait in queue to make such a request. And they will not accept such a reuqest until the delivery of the Yellow Pages in that exchange is complete). Wes Leatherock wesrock@aol.com wleathus@yahoo.com Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 05:44:29 -0800 (PST) From: "harold@hallikainen.com" <harold@hallikainen.com> To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu Subject: Google Voice and Reciprocal Compensation on NPR Message-ID: <e8e4f759-fe3a-4c24-8898-fc2ed981d031@h14g2000pri.googlegroups.com> http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=114341718 ***** Moderator's Note ***** This is a good introduction to the ways that the reciprocal compensation rules can be used to benefit certain classes of traffic. CLECs are incentivized to serve "receive only" lines, i.e., lines which seldom make outgoing calls, so as to tip the compensation rules in their favor. Since the terminating company gets paid by the IEC, CLECs with a lot of conference-call or "chat room" or other customers who answer lots of calls, but make very few, can turn a profit. Google, which is in the awkward position of having almost all "originating" traffic, must pay the higher rates which some rural ILEC/CLECs are allowed to charge for terminating calls. Bill Horne Moderator Date: 2 Nov 2009 19:41:15 -0000 From: John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> To: redacted@invalid.telecom.csail.mit.edu Subject: Re: Google Voice and Reciprocal Compensation on NPR Message-ID: <20091102194115.59443.qmail@simone.iecc.com> >This is a good introduction to the ways that the reciprocal >compensation rules can be used to benefit certain classes of >traffic. CLECs are incentivized to serve "receive only" lines, i.e., >lines which seldom make outgoing calls, so as to tip the compensation >rules in their favor. ... CLECs made a lot of money from recip comp on calls to modem banks, but that's not what's going on in this case. This is "traffic pumping" in which midwestern rural LECs with very high termination rates host conference bridges and numbers that forward over VoIP to other countries. In the case of recip comp, the big telcos had only themselves to blame, because they demanded it from CLECs, but in this case it's the greedy little RLECs who are acting abusively. Their rates are set to provide a certain amount of subsidy based on their low historic traffic, which suddenly goes up by orders of magnitude. In one case I read that an RLEC that used to get something like $20K/yr from AT&T pumped up the traffic to $1M/month. Adding to the fun, there are two CLECs in Iowa that set themselves up just to join in the pumping fun, by opting into the existing high termination rates in the areas they purport to serve. In a recent case the Iowa state regulators found that one of the CLECs had no real customers in their alleged service area at all and turned them off. R's, John TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly to telecom- munications topics. It is circulated anywhere there is email, in addition to Usenet, where it appears as the moderated newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'. TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational service offered to the Internet by Bill Horne. All the contents of the Digest are compilation-copyrighted. You may reprint articles in some other media on an occasional basis, but please attribute my work and that of the original author. The Telecom Digest is moderated by Bill Horne. 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A suggested donation of fifty dollars per year per reader is considered appropriate. See our address above. Please make at least a single donation to cover the cost of processing your name to the mailing list. All opinions expressed herein are deemed to be those of the author. Any organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages should not be considered any official expression by the organization. End of The Telecom digest (11 messages)