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TELECOM Digest     Tue, 31 May 2005 17:49:00 EDT    Volume 24 : Issue 241

Inside This Issue:                             Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Ray Pelletier Appointed as IETF Administrative Director (Peter Godwin)
    Ericsson Looks to Revive Fixed Line Business (Telecom Daily Lead - USTA)
    Re: 25 cps Power, was: Tie Lines was Re: Foreign Exchange Lines (AES)
    Re: 25 cps Power, was: Tie Lines was Re: Foreign Exchange Lines (Lisa H)
    Re: 25 cps Power, was: Tie Lines was Re: Foreign Exchange Lines (Morris)
    Re: 25 cps Power, was: Tie Lines was Re: Foreign Exchange Lines (AES)
    Re: 25 Hz power Re: Tie Lines was Re: Foreign Exchange Lines (R Bonomi)
    Re: 25 Hz power Re: Tie Lines was Re: Foreign Exchange Lines (H Wharton)
    Re: 25 Hz power Re: Tie Lines was Re: Foreign Exchange Lines (L Hancock)
    Re: Here is My Sad Story With Lingo (DevilsPGD)
    Re: Here is My Sad Story With Lingo (Henry)
    Re: Phone Outage Costs Fort Wayne Store to Lose Business (Lisa Hancock)
    Re: Very Early Modems (Lisa Hancock)
    Re: Do Not do Business With Sprint PCS ! (NOTvalid@XmasNYC.Info)
    Re: Do Not do Business With Sprint PCS ! (Tim@Backhome.org)
    Re: Packet8 DTMF Tones Sound "Clipped" (PrinceGunter)
    Re: Will My Cingular SIM Card Work in Another Brand of Phone? (J Levine)
    Re: How is Your Holiday? Mine Sort of Bittersweet (Lisa Hancock)

Telecom and VOIP (Voice over Internet Protocol) Digest for the
Internet.  All contents here are copyrighted by Patrick Townson and
the individual writers/correspondents. Articles may be used in other
journals or newsgroups, provided the writer's name and the Digest are
included in the fair use quote.  By using -any name or email address-
included herein for -any- reason other than responding to an article
herein, you agree to pay a hundred dollars to the recipients of the
email.

               ===========================

Addresses herein are not to be added to any mailing list, nor to be
sold or given away without explicit written consent.  Chain letters,
viruses, porn, spam, and miscellaneous junk are definitely unwelcome.

We must fight spam for the same reason we fight crime: not because we
are naive enough to believe that we will ever stamp it out, but because
we do not want the kind of world that results when no one stands
against crime.   Geoffrey Welsh

               ===========================

See the bottom of this issue for subscription and archive details
and the name of our lawyer; other stuff of interest.  

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Peter Godwin <godwin@isoc.org>
Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 15:17:43 +0200
Organization: Internet Society
Subject: Ray Pelletier Appointed as IETF Administrative Director


Reston, Reston, VA - 31st May 2005 - The Internet Engineering Task
Force (IETF) is delighted to announce the appointment of Ray Pelletier
as its first IETF Administrative Director (IAD). This appointment
marks a key step in the IETF's progress in building a coordinated
administrative platform that supports the collected needs of its
community. Over the course of the coming months, this will include
reorganization of the IETF's global budget and establishment or review
of contracts with key support organizations.

Pelletier will take charge of a number of activities that the IETF
depends on for smooth operation, including oversight of its global
budget, meeting planning, secretariat, document publication, and
parameter assignment. Most of these activities are carried out for the
IETF by other organizations under various forms of agreement;
Pelletier will be responsible for reviewing and establishing those
agreements and for future bidding processes.

Pelletier has extensive leadership and management experience across
the breadth of public, private, for-profit, non-profit, and volunteer
organizations. As Director of Information Systems for the Navy JAG
Corps he was responsible for managing a $10 million worldwide
automation program. In his role as Executive Director for the Northern
Virginia Technology Council he successfully managed the organizational
development and operational support of a fast growing membership
association.

Brian Carpenter, Chair of the IETF, said, "We're delighted to have Ray
on board. His experience suits the IETF perfectly - he's dealt both
with contractors and with open, consensus driven volunteer
communities, and we need someone who can slip easily between those two
worlds and make sure they remain in sync. I'm eagerly looking forward
to working with him."

Pelletier's appointment was made by the recently constituted IETF
Administrative Oversight Committee (IAOC), chaired by Lucy Lynch
(University of Oregon). Lynch said, "I'm eager to dig into the next
phase of the reorganization and I welcome Ray's expertise and
insight."

As part of a joint IETF-Internet Society agreement to support this
administrative activity, Pelletier will be hosted by the Internet
Society in Reston, Virginia.

The IETF is a large open international community of network designers,
operators, vendors, and researchers concerned with the evolution of
the Internet architecture and the smooth operation of the Internet. It
is open to any interested individual.

The Internet Society (ISOC) is a non-governmental international
organization for global cooperation and coordination for the Internet
and its internetworking technologies and applications. Members
comprise commercial companies, governmental agencies, foundations, and
individuals. ISOC has 82 Chapters in over 60 countries around the
world.

FOR FURTHER DETAILS: 

Peter Godwin
Communications Manager, Internet Society
E-mail: godwin@isoc.org 
4, rue des Falaises
1205 Geneva
Switzerland 

------------------------------

From: Telecom dailyLead from USTA <usta@dailylead.com>
Subject: Ericsson Looks to Revive Fixed-Line Business
Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 15:00:00 CDT


Telecom dailyLead from USTA
May 31, 2005
http://www.dailylead.com/latestIssue.jsp?i=21959&l=2017006

		TODAY'S HEADLINES
	
NEWS OF THE DAY
* Ercisson looks to revive fixed-line business
BUSINESS & INDUSTRY WATCH
* Cingular to sell Good Technology e-mail directly
* Ring tone tops British music charts
* Alcatel goes GPON, plans wireless networking rollout
* RBOCs edge cable in Q1 broadband growth
USTA SPOTLIGHT 
* In the Telecom Bookstore: Phone Facts Plus 2005
HOT TOPICS
* Qwest ends pursuit of MCI
* Skype repositions itself after VoIP 911 ruling
* Nokia announces Wi-Fi device
* GPON piques RBOCs' interest
* Cell phone users want media services
EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES
* Startup tests long-range Wi-Fi
* ITU greenlights VDSL2 standard
REGULATORY & LEGISLATIVE
* Texas lawmakers fail to act on TV bill

Follow the link below to read quick summaries of these stories and others.
http://www.dailylead.com/latestIssue.jsp?i=21959&l=2017006

------------------------------

From: AES <siegman@stanford.edu>
Subject: Re: 25 cps Power, was: Tie Lines was Re: Foreign Exchange Lines
Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 08:35:04 -0700
Organization: Stanford University


In article <telecom24.240.8@telecom-digest.org>, Paul Coxwell
<paulcoxwell@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

> We also came up with the following link to an interesting article
> about frequency converters.  This seems to confirm that 25Hz power was
> indeed generated in the Niagara/Buffalo region of New York, as well as
> elsewhere.

On a couple of nonstrop auto trips in 1949-1952 back and forth between
home in Detroit and college in Boston we took the straight-line route
thru Canada, N of Lake Erie, and I believe the power the part of
Canada we went through was 25 cycle at the time -- flickering lights
in late-nite restaurants, etc.

------------------------------

From: hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com
Subject: Re: 25 cps Power, was: Tie Lines was Re: Foreign Exchange Lines
Date: 31 May 2005 09:22:31 -0700
Organization: http://groups.google.com



Paul Coxwell wrote:

> Somebody else recalled that when his grandfather worked as an
> electrician in the West Virginia mines in the early 1950s that they
> had 25Hz power.

For some reason, when AC was to be used (needed for transmission
efficiency), 25Hz was required for electric motors back in the 1920s
and 1930s.  It was widely used in railroads.  The electric trains from
New Haven to Washington DC, west to Harrisburg, and on numerous
branches serving commuters, was all 25 Hz, and much of it remains 25
Hz to this day.

Subways used 600 V DC, but purchased or generated 25Hz power and sent
that out to the substations for rectification and voltage
transformation.

Because of the above, for years certain commercial power stations
continued to generate 25 Hz for their railway customers.  I think now
they finally are able to use solid-state converters instead of the big
rotary machines.  As mentioned, some railroads (but not all) switched
to 60Hz.

------------------------------

From: Joe Morris <jcmorris@mitre.org>
Subject: Re: 25 cps Power, was: Tie Lines was Re: Foreign Exchange Lines
Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 13:10:19 +0000 (UTC)
Organization: The MITRE Organization


Wesrock@aol.com writes:

> Danny Burstein <dannyb@panix.com> writes:

> (Fred Harvey and the Santa Fe Railroad were associated from some time
> in the late 1800s.)

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Remember also the "Harvey Girls" who
> were like 'stewardesses' on the Santa Fe trains and the 1940's movie
> about the Harvey Girls, and they were always singing that song about 
> the railroad ... how did it go?  Something about " ... my day, and the
> Atchison, Topeka and the Santa Fe ..." 

Tying this (barely) into the thread currently running about WU clocks,
part of the lyrics went:

   See the old smoke risin' 'round the bend,
   I reckon that she knows she's gonna meet a friend,
   Folks around these parts get the time of day,
   From the Atchison, Topeka, and the Santa Fe.

Joe Morris


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Right you are, I do not have any prize
for you, however. The AT&SF railroad _originally_ ran between
Atichson, Kansas, through Topeka, Kansas and southwestward on to Santa
Fe, New Mexico. Then, as Chicago became the railroad capitol of
America (start of 20th century) the AT&SF continued pushing eastward,
making its new terminus at Dearborn Station in Chicago, and relocating
its headquarters in the 'Santa Fe Building' at Jackson Blvd. and
Michigan Avenue in downtown Chicago. I hear your question now: ...
 ... *what was/is 'Dearborn Station'?*  Well, along with Union Station
(Canal Street and Madison) which still exists and is now the terminus
for most intercity railroad traffic, there were Dearborn Station
(Dearborn and Harrison Streets), Grand Central Station, (Baltimore &
Ohio RR, Chesapeake RR's and others at Harrison and Wells Streets),
Central Station (Illinois Central RR at Michigan and Roosevelt Road),
LaSalle Street Station (various lines, LaSalle and Van Buren Streets)
Northwestern Station (Canal and Randolph Streets) and others. All are
gone, except for Northwestern Station and Union Station, and the
various railroads still offering passenger service all merged their
depots/terminals into one of those two locations.  

Now a question for the readers: Why do you suppose almost every single
national political convention in US history from sometime in the
middle 1800's through the middle 1900's was held in Chicago, as often
as not at (the old) Chicago Stadium, or the International Ampitheatre,
or as late as 1968 at the Stockyards convention hall?  As often as
not, the Republicans first, then a month later the Democrats, at the
Chicago Stadium?  Answer: because there were no airplanes to speak of,
certainly no commercial and commonplace air travel. _Everyone_, politicans 
included, traveled by rail. And the most convenient place to meet for
convention (which after all, means to 'convene') was in Chicago, where
all the passenger railroads had their terminals. So the conference
delegates, senators, governors, whoever all came to meet in _Chicago_
for their conventions. The railroads were one, maybe the principal
reason Chicago grew from a population of a few thousand people in the
1850's to over a million people by the 1890's, and two million people
in the early 1900's. _The railroads_ which may as well not even exist
today. 

One summer when I had just gotten out of high school, I had a part
time job selling train tickets for the B&O Railroad out of the (long
since torn down) Grand Central Station in Chicago. It was intended as
only a 'summer job' until the travel season was over. It was my
privilege to meet Harry S. Truman and his wife Bess, who were traveling 
to Washington, DC for some event from their home in Independence, MO.
They naturally took the Santa Fe to Chicago, where they switched
trains (but of course) to the B&O train to go on to Washington, DC.
PAT]

------------------------------

From: AES <siegman@stanford.edu>
Subject: Re: 25 cps Power, was: Tie Lines was Re: Foreign Exchange Lines
Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 08:35:04 -0700
Organization: Stanford University


In article <telecom24.240.8@telecom-digest.org>, Paul Coxwell
<paulcoxwell@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

> We also came up with the following link to an interesting article
> about frequency converters.  This seems to confirm that 25Hz power was
> indeed generated in the Niagara/Buffalo region of New York, as well as
> elsewhere.

On a couple of nonstrop auto trips in 1949-1952 back and forth between
home in Detroit and college in Boston we took the straight-line route
thru Canada, N of Lake Erie, and I believe the power the part of
Canada we went through was 25 cycle at the time -- flickering lights
in late-nite restaurants, etc.

------------------------------

From: bonomi@host122.r-bonomi.com (Robert Bonomi)
Subject: Re: 25 Hz power Re: Tie Lines was Re: Foreign Exchange Lines
Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 09:35:12 -0000
Organization: Widgets, Inc.


In article <telecom24.239.5@telecom-digest.org>,  <Wesrock@aol.com> wrote:

> In a message dated Sat, 28 May 2005 09:37:57 -0000, 
> bonomi@host122.r-bonomi.com (Robert Bonomi) writes:

>>> When did they deliver AC at 25 cycles?  I do recall some 50 cycle
>>> companies around that had to change after the end of WWII.

>> I don't know when the last 25-cycle power was phased out.  Keokuk, Iowa, 
>> had a 25-cycle hydroelectric plant -- driven by the Mississippi River, 

> Doesn't Amtrak still have some 25 Hz power plants from its predecessor
> lines in the Northeast Corridor?  Some locations have been converted
> to commercial power, some of them still owned and operated by Amtrak
> still provide 25 Hz.

Correct  And there are some other private installations using 25-cycle
as well.

I was referring to _public_ power distribution at 25-cycle.  Where that
was what you found at the outlet in your house, or office.

Reasonably common through the 1930s, at least.  Best data I can find,
so far, *seems* to put end of public 25-cycle distribution somewhere
post-WWII to mid-1950s.

------------------------------

From: Howard S. Wharton <yhshowie@acsu.buffalo.edu>
Subject: Re: 25 Hz Power Re: Tie Lines was Re: Foreign Exchange Lines
Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 11:14:22 -0400
Organization: The University at Buffalo


Amtrak's Northeast Corridor including their line from Philly to
Harrisburg (former PRR , ex-PC) still runs 11000VAC 25 cycles in their
catenary. The former NY Connecting RR (Hell Gate bridge route)
including the former New Haven RR"s Harlem River branch also using
11000VAC 25 cycle power in the cat. The change over to higher voltage
and 60 cycles is before New Rochelle Jct where the branch meets the
former NH (now Metro-North ) main from GCT. Metro-North as well as
Amtrak's main from New Haven to Boston is 60 cycles.

I believe the power lines from the falls crossing over from Canada to
the US by the Peace Bridge is still 25 cycles. Who in Buffalo is still
using it, I don't know.

Howard S. Wharton
Fire Safety Technician
Occupational and Environmental Safety Services
State University of New York at Buffalo

------------------------------

From: hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com
Subject: Re: 25 Hz power Re: Tie Lines was Re: Foreign Exchange Lines
Date: 31 May 2005 09:30:53 -0700
Organization: http://groups.google.com


Wesrock@aol.com wrote:

> Doesn't Amtrak still have some 25 Hz power plants from its predecessor
> lines in the Northeast Corridor?  Some locations have been converted
> to commercial power, some of them still owned and operated by Amtrak
> still provide 25 Hz.

AFAIK, no railroad generates its own power anymore.  Indeed, the great
1930s Pennsylvania RR electrification used commercial power right from
the start.

Amtrak, SEPTA, and NJ Transit still have considerable routes that use
the original 25Hz 11,000V.  The New Haven to Boston line uses modern
power as does some NJT routes.

> Their electric locomovies are designed to run on either frequency and
> within a certain range of voltages (24,000 and higher) to accomodate
> the variations in the power supplied by commerical power in different
> sections and also those sections served by their legacy power plants.

The locomotives can switch power on the fly, but many of the commuter
cars require shop work to make the conversion to a different power
source.

AFAIK, today there is nothing wrong with continuing with 25Hz and a
lot of expense and disruption to convert, so it probably will remain
in service for a long time.  AFAIK, the substations that convert the
frequency are solid-state now.

A more pressing problem is the poor shape of the catenary (overhead
wires to the trains).  It is mostly 75 years old (or more) and time
has caught up.  Looking at it, especially at complex junctions, one
can't help but marvel at the genuis of the engineers who designed it
in the 1930s -- its durability is incredible.


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I still recall how Chicago Transit
Authority used to switch between 'third rail' and overhead (catenary)
wires north of Howard Street on the Evanston line and the Skokie
line. Train would pull out of the station (using third rail), get a
short distance up the track, coast to a stop and while they were in
the process of hoisting the catenary pole into place, one or more of
the clerks would walk through the cars like the proverbial train 
bandits of old times, telling the passengers "five cents more to
continue your ride, please". People would get in their purses to find
a nickel to hand over, but thoughtful passengers who made the trip
each day and knew what to expect had already paid their five cent
surcharge at the station where they boarded the train and instead of
a nickle for the clerk would produce a a scrap of paper instead which
I think was entitled 'proof of payment' and hand that over to the
clerks instead. PAT]

------------------------------

From: DevilsPGD <spamsucks@crazyhat.net>
Subject: Re: Here is My Sad Story With Lingo
Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 23:25:01 -0600
Organization: Disorganized


In message <telecom24.239.2@telecom-digest.org> John Avina - Abraxas
Energy Consulting" <johnavina@abraxasenergy.com> wrote:

> About a year ago, I called their sales department and asked if Lingo
> could work over sattelite.  They said yes, and signed me up.

> I got the equipment, and tried for a couple of months (I had to buy
> all sorts of adapters) to make it work, and called tech support, and
> they said, no, it will not work.

> I tried to cancel, and get a refund, since their sales department
> mislead me.  They would not give me a refund, and twice, when I asked
> to speak to a manager, they said the manager was too busy and would
> call me back, but the manager never did.

> After cancelling, they put a $40 cancellation fee on my credit card,
> and not only that, this month I got a $22 charge on my credit card.

> I have never been involved with such a crooked dishonest company
> before.  I would advise all people to avoid Lingo.  They have no
> ethics, apparently, and charge poor suckers like me for nothing.

> Never give them your credit card.

No: The solution is to give them your credit card, but no other way to
collect money from you.

Your next step is to call your credit card company and have all the
charges reversed.

------------------------------

From: henry999@eircom.net (Henry)
Subject: Re: Here is My Sad Story With Lingo
Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 09:27:00 +0300
Organization: Elisa Internet customer


<John> wrote:

> About a year ago, I called their sales department and asked if Lingo
> could work over sattelite.  They said yes, and signed me up.

> ...no, it will not work.

> I tried to cancel, and get a refund, since their sales department
> mislead me.

Here is what I have done several times in similar situations (_not_
with Lingo, however). After discussing the matter with a phone rep, I
will write a brief summary of the conversation, including all the
details about what will (and, if relevant, what will not) work. I then
e-mail it to them and ask that they print it off on their letterhead,
have it signed by someone of manager level and fax it back to me. When
I've got the fax in my hand, I give them my credit card number and an
authorization to proceed with the order.

If they won't do that for you, you probably don't want to deal with
them.

Cheers,

Henry

------------------------------

From: hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com
Subject: Re: Phone Outage Costs Fort Wayne Store to Lose Business
Date: 31 May 2005 09:41:54 -0700


Robert Bonomi wrote:

> Depending on the telco, and depending on the length of time you needed
> =>'overlapping'<= service, there may, or may ****NOT!*** have been
> a charge for it.

They do charge you for regular service to the second location; after
all, they are providing you with two separate service lines.  But
there isn't a special charge for the overlap itself.

This is limited to approx one month.

I knew someone who had two houses in the same exchange territory and
he wanted this arrangement on a permanent basis.  The phoneco wouldn't
do it.  I was told that this arrangement is not very efficient and
problem-prone.  Businesses can get it but for a fee and more work is
required.

------------------------------

From: hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com
Subject: Re: Very Early Modems
Date: 31 May 2005 09:57:38 -0700


Jim Haynes wrote:

> One of the problems with the modems circa 1960 was that AT&T felt they
> should operate over nearly any dialed-up connection between any two
> points.  With the state of the telephone plant in the early 1960s this
> was a tall order.

I am far more sensitive to minute power outages and "blinks" because
my electronic gear gets wacky.  Newer gear has internal battery
backup, but usually the clock is off by a minute or two and some
settings are lost.  Other gear (like my microwave) goes to blink.  One
of my clocks takes a 9V battery as backup, but chews them up.

Anyway, the phone system as of 1960 was similar.  It was fine for us
to talk over and an occassional click or pop or slight crosstalk was
ignored by humans.

But sending data at 2400 is another story.  One little click disrupts
a whole stream and requires a re-transmission.  The older switches
could be 'noisy'.

> This would be a requirement for TWX, offering nationwide
> service, and for higher-speed modems.

TWX was low speed and more tolerant of errors, though obviously
undesirable.  I understand modern Teletypes could be equipped with
parity detection, but that needed ASCII and IIRC TWX was still Baudot.
From the little I've seen reprinted in books and actual use, I believe
some errors were expected and critical fields like money amounts were
spelled out.  In 1974 my employer had a TTY and using it was
supposedly a pain.

> Meanwhile the telephone plant was rapidly improving and the
> probability of getting an unusable connection was steadily going
> down.  So the Bell modems were overdesigned and consequently
> overpriced for the kind of service that much of the market needed.

Yes the Bell System was constantly improving its physical plant, but
it was also expanding very rapidly.  In 1960 plenty of calls were
still handled over open wire through SxS offices and it would take
years to upgrade that.

Given the criticality of data transmission, I suspect overdesign was
prudent and valuable.  In the 1970s my employer was always switching
between AT&T and IBM modems seeking one that provided the highest
reliability.  Private leased lines has mixed reliability and digital
lines looked promising (although a digital line was either fully
working or broken and a bad analog line still got some data through.)
BTW, divesture hurt us badly because suddenly our lines were
arbitrarily split between the local and long distance carriers and
immediately finger pointing began.

We take effortless data communication for granted today, but not long
ago it wasn't so easy.

------------------------------

From: NOTvalid@XmasNYC.Info
Subject: Re: Do Not do Business With Sprint PCS !
Date: 31 May 2005 06:10:37 -0700


Sue them in small claims court for breach of contract.

------------------------------

From: Tim@Backhome.org
Subject: Re: Do Not do Business With Sprint PCS !
Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 07:12:37 -0700
Organization: Cox Communications


You could very well have the same, or similar, experience with any of
the wireless carriers.  The contract is really for service, not the
phone.  Sometimes we have to accept that, as consumers, we make bad
choices as to the equipment we decide to buy.  You could replace the
phone with one that works, stay on the account, and sue them in small
claims court over the defective equipment (as opposed to the wireless
service).

pierreberto@yahoo.fr wrote:

> I went to the same company-owned store I bought my Sanyo 7400 from a
> couple of months ago, starting a new two-year contract.  The earpiece
> got progressively worse in sound-quality, as for me to hardly
> understand the conversation.  I asked for a replacement or repair.

> After they looked at it, they said no, as there was "nothing wrong
> with the phone."  There sure was, with the sound quality absolutely
> terrible.  While waiting for my phone, I tested other Sanyo phones in
> the store.  Many sounded bad too, my mine sounded the worst.  The
> phone in its present condition is worthless to me.  So I call up
> Sprint directly.  They said they couldn't help me.  So I said fine,
> just cancel the account, refund the purchase price for my phone after
> the $150 rebate they sent me (I offered to send the phone back to
> them), and don't charge me a $150 early termination fee, since they're
> not honoring their warranty or conditions to my contract, since I have
> a phone I can't call from and can't do a thing with.  They refused,
> even after talking to two supervisors.  I've been a customer of them
> for four years, but it took four years for me to suddenly figure out
> what an unethical company Sprint is.  They're awful.  Avoid them at
> all costs!

------------------------------

From: PrinceGunter <slippymississippi@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Packet8 DTMF Tones Sound "Clipped"
Date: 31 May 2005 07:29:30 -0700
Organization: http://groups.google.com


> I regularly forward my Vonage service to my cell phone, and from there
> my cell phone transfers the call invoice voicemail.  Callers can enter
> their phone numbers to get a call back, this function works fine.

> I also check my own voicemail through the forwarding loop sometimes
> (If I'm traveling in Texas I can dial my Texas virtual number as a
> local call, rather then calling long distance to my cellphone's number
> in Calgary.)

Both of these instances have the DTMF travelling in the opposite
direction than the situation I'm dealing with.

I'm placing an inbound call to a Vonage number that's been forwarded,
and expecting DTMF back from the recipient.  As the caller, however, I
can generate DTMF to the recipient just fine.

------------------------------

Date: 31 May 2005 06:11:24 -0000
From: John Levine <johnl@iecc.com>
Subject: Re: Will My Cingular SIM Card Work in Another Brand of Phone?
Organization: I.E.C.C., Trumansburg NY USA


> I Dropped my Cingular Motorola V220 in water ... OOps! Will the
> Cingular sim card work in a Nokia or other type of Motorola?

A SIM is a SIM.  It'll work in any GSM phone that's either locked to
Cingular or unlocked.  I can report that SIMs are quite durable -- I
left one phone in my pants pocket and ran it through the laundry,
after which the phone was never the same but the SIM still works fine.

> !! And what are the cheapest phones that are cingular and SIM
> compatible, THANKS!!

Look on ebay.  For use in the US, any 850/1900 phone will do the
trick.  You may see some phones that do 1900 but not 850, which I
would avoid since Cingular has a lot more GSM 850 networks than 1900.
Many GSM phones also handle 900 or 1800 which aren't used in the US,
so they won't help either.

R's,

John

------------------------------

From: hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com
Subject: Re: How is Your Holiday? Mine Sort of Bittersweet
Date: 31 May 2005 10:20:28 -0700
Organization: http://groups.google.com


TELECOM Digest Editor wrote:

> To the USA readers, how goes your Memorial Day weekend holiday? You
> may recall here I mentioned a couple weeks ago about the relevance and
> pertinence for many of us in the 'Amber Alert' program. That really
> hit home for me about a week ago regards my younger sister when we
> _finally_ after some intensive searching discovered she was _still_ in
> Orlando, Florida where she wound up after having left home at the age
> of 16 almost thirty years ago. We got a phone call from her (now 23
> year old) son about a week ago. It seems she had died -- on the
> street, the usual 'home' for homeless people -- she had been cremated
> and the ashes given to her son, as 'next of kin' on March 5, 2005, in
> other words about three months ago.

I'm sure all of your readers extend their condolences for the loss of
your sister.  Our best wishes for the best kind of closure possible
under the circumstances.

> So how was your holiday weekend?

Our town has a Memorial Day parade every year.  It concludes in front
of my complex where a gunsalute is fired, prayers are recited, and a
speech made thanking the veterans for their service.  The band plays
taps then the Star Spangled Banner.

I find it moving because it was the sacrifice of veterans of the past
and today that makes things like this newsgroup possible -- where we
can speak our minds freely and be as critical as we want of anything
we want.  Contrary to the hysterics, they do not come and take any of
us away for what we say.

Last year we had a town councilman who was upset over the Iraq war.
During the Pledge of Allegiance, he remained seated, back to the flag,
arms folded defiantly across his chest.  Boy did that anger a lot of
people!

But that's the beauty of our country!  The councilman is free to sit
if he so chooses.  And the voters are free to turn him out of office
or retain him however they so choose.  We must never forget that.


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Thanks very much for your kind words 
about my sister, Katherine Eleanor Townson Jones. That girl had a
very rough life, so radically different than my own. If/when her ashes
arrive here from Orlando, I think my mother wants to have some sort
of memorial service. (We were hoping that would have happened over the
holiday weekend when my brother and his wife were in town, but no such
luck.) Katherine's son, 23-year old Justin Jones -- himself a street
person -- (after all, like mother, like son I guess) was convinced in
his last phone call to me a couple days ago to deliver the ashes to
'a good friend of his' who promised they would be sent in the post
here, ASAP. Supposedly, Justin is coming to visit also, if he can
raise the money for a Greyhound Bus ticket. We will see what happens,
but I am not going to have a brass marching band waiting for this
new 'guest of honor' -- if he shows up, that is. Our hope had been the
ashes would have shown up sometime last week whether Justin did (show
up) or not. We were disillusioned, to say the least. My brother, the
relatively rich self-employed commercial artist from Chicago has 
already indicated that if Justin does get sick and tired of the drug,
prostitution, homeless lifestyle in Florida he lives in and decides
on a fresh start, Uncle Pat (hey! that's me!) should give him the
Eliza Doolittle and Professor treatment here and "By George, I think
he's got it!" routine in the hopes the child will grow up amounting to
something.  More news if anything significant to report.  

Here in Independence there was also a Memorial Day commemoration. But
my brother, his wife and kid and myself took mother down to the
cemetery in Coffeyville where dad is at, and we got in on the final
portion of the VFW (Veterans of Foreign Wars) commemoration at the
cemetery there. It was a lot like the one you saw, and the reasons,
etc were about the same. Thanks again for your kind words.  PAT]

------------------------------


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