For your convenience in reading: Subject lines are printed in RED and
Moderator replies when issued appear in BROWN.
Previous Issue (just one)
TD Extra News
For your convenience in reading: Subject lines are printed in RED and
Moderator replies when issued appear in BROWN.
Previous Issue (just one)
TD Extra News
TELECOM Digest Tue, 19 Apr 2005 00:57:00 EDT Volume 24 : Issue 171
Inside This Issue: Editor: Patrick A. Townson
Officials Want to Wire Earth, Check Signs (Lisa Minter)
Verizon FiOS TV Will Offer a New Customer Experience (Monty Solomon)
Verizon Offering 'Naked' DSL in Northeast (Monty Solomon)
Verizon Wireless International Long Distance Value Plan (Monty Solomon)
Wireless Community Supports DVB-H Open Standard (Monty Solomon)
Markey Targets Credit ID Theft: Wants Security Freeze (Monty Solomon)
Congress Renews Interest in Identity Theft (Monty Solomon)
Re: Credit Information Stolen From DSW Stores (Monty Solomon)
DSL 3 mbps (cervantes77@hotmail.com)
3rd International Conference on Mobile Systems (Danielle Young)
A "What-if" Regarding Papal Election and Diebold (Micheal D. Sullivan)
Re: Getting Serious About the War on Spam (Dan Lanciani)
Re: Can I Substitute NiMH Battery for NiCd in Cordless (Fred Goldstein)
Re: Surveillance Cameras More Common Everyday (jmeissen@aracnet.com)
Re: SprintPCS Lousy Web Interface (Steve Sobol)
Re: Internet Pioneer: VoIP is NOT Telephony (Robert Bonomi)
Re: PPC Advertising, Click Fraud; Effect on Search Engines (gds@best)
Telecom and VOIP (Voice over Internet Protocol) Digest for the
Internet. All contents here are copyrighted by Patrick Townson and
the individual writers/correspondents. Articles may be used in other
journals or newsgroups, provided the writer's name and the Digest are
included in the fair use quote. By using -any name or email address-
included herein for -any- reason other than responding to an article
herein, you agree to pay a hundred dollars to the recipients of the
email.
===========================
Addresses herein are not to be added to any mailing list, nor to be
sold or given away without explicit written consent. Chain letters,
viruses, porn, spam, and miscellaneous junk are definitely unwelcome.
We must fight spam for the same reason we fight crime: not because we
are naive enough to believe that we will ever stamp it out, but because
we do not want the kind of world that results when no one stands
against crime. Geoffrey Welsh
===========================
See the bottom of this issue for subscription and archive details
and the name of our lawyer; other stuff of interest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 18 Apr 2005 17:22:54 -0700
From: Lisa Minter <lisa_minter2001@yahoo.com>
Subject: Officials Want to Wire Earth, Check Signs
By JOHN HEILPRIN, Associated Press Writer
Imagine the planet wired for a nearly continuous readout on its vital
signs, shared by all. That's the essence of a White House plan
announced Monday.
The new "Strategic Plan for the U.S. Integrated Earth Observation
System" envisions linking nearly 60 nations within a decade to gather
and share information from satellites, ocean buoys, weather stations
and other surface and airborne instruments.
"Whether it's agriculture, or land use, or water planning, or
transportation, or energy, there's a lot of data about the environment
that has to be collected," said John Marburger III, President Bush's
top science adviser.
Marburger said "a surprisingly successful enterprise" at collecting
and sharing data already is under way as the result of a United
Nations summit on sustainable development in South Africa in 2002.
Many of the measurements already are being gathered. The new effort
will focus on linking them in what Marburger called a planetary
"system of systems." He released a 150-page plan that cites benefits
such as improved weather forecasting and climate modeling, better
estimates of crop yields and energy resources, and more knowledge
about air and water quality.
As an examples of benefits, officials said better and shared data
could save the United States as much as $1 billion in electricity
costs each year if winter forecasts prove to be just 1 degree more
accurate. As much as $1.7 billion of the annual $4 billion cost of
weather-related aviation delays could be saved with better
information, they added.
Data tracking disease outbreaks such as malaria or West Nile virus
would enable officials to minimize their impact as they spread.
Retired Navy Vice Admiral Conrad C. Lautenbacher, a Commerce
Department undersecretary who heads the National Oceanic and
Atmospheric Administration, said a key step is getting more businesses
involved in the project.
"This depends on a lot more people than just the government," he said.
White House strategic plan:
http://iwgeo.ssc.nasa.gov/default.asp
Copyright 2005 The Associated Press.
NOTE: For more telecom/internet/networking/computer news from the
daily media, check out our feature 'Telecom Digest Extra' each day at
http://telecom-digest.org/td-extra/more-news.html . Hundreds of new
articles daily.
Chat about these topics or other telecom news in our conference room
24/7 with others: http://telecom-digest.org/td-extra/chatpage.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 17:40:35 -0400
From: Monty Solomon <monty@roscom.com>
Subject: Verizon FiOS TV Will Offer a New Customer Experience, Seidenberg
Calls on Broadcasters to Support Verizon's Franchise Reform
LAS VEGAS, April 18 /PRNewswire/ -- Consumers will have a compelling
alternative to cable television when Verizon enters the video market
later this year with FiOS TV, Ivan Seidenberg, the chairman and CEO
of Verizon, told the National Association of Broadcasters today.
"FiOS will change the competitive landscape in the video marketplace,
both now and in the future. From Day One, we'll offer a new
technology, a new business model and a new customer experience,"
Seidenberg said.
Speaking at the NAB's national convention, Seidenberg called on
broadcasters to help break down "the biggest barrier" to Verizon's
entry into video: the requirement that Verizon obtain a second
franchise from local authorities, in addition to the one the company
already has, to carry video on its fiber networks.
- http://finance.lycos.com/home/news/story.asp?story=48437638
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 17:43:40 -0400
From: Monty Solomon <monty@roscom.com>
Subject: Verizon Offering 'Naked' DSL in Northeast
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Verizon Communications said Monday that some
customers who already subscribe to its phone and high-speed Internet
service can drop their local calling plans but still keep their
speedy Web connection.
The ability to subscribe solely to Verizon's DSL, or high-speed
Internet service, could be attractive to young customers who rely
primarily on their wireless plan for phone calls. It could also appeal
to customers who want to try out new Internet-calling technology.
Initially, the availability of "naked DSL" will be limited to
customers in the New York company's old Northeastern territory once
served by Nynex or Bell Atlantic, the predecessor companies of
Verizon. And only customers who already receive phone and high-speed
Internet access from Verizon would be eligible.
- http://finance.lycos.com/home/news/story.asp?story=48443119
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 17:45:42 -0400
From: Monty Solomon <monty@roscom.com>
Subject: Verizon Wireless International Long Distance Value Plan
International Long Distance Value Plan Offers Rates Starting at $.09 per
Minute
BEDMINSTER, N.J., April 18 /PRNewswire/ -- Verizon Wireless, owner and
operator of the nation's most reliable wireless network, is making it
easier for customers to keep in touch with family and friends around
the globe. Starting today, customers can take advantage of Verizon
Wireless' new International Long Distance Value Plan for an affordable
way to connect with people around the world, including Asia, Central
America, Europe, South America, the Caribbean and other North American
countries.
Eligible Verizon Wireless customers with America's Choice(SM) or North
America's Choice calling plans can add the International Long Distance
Value Plan for $3.99 per month and receive lower-than-ever
international calling rates that start at $.09 per minute plus airtime
on calls from anywhere on the America's Choice network.* Calling
internationally from a Verizon Wireless phone has never been more
affordable.
- http://finance.lycos.com/home/news/story.asp?story=48447944
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 17:41:56 -0400
From: Monty Solomon <monty@roscom.com>
Subject: Wireless Community Supports DVB-H Open Standard, Encourages
Wireless Community Supports DVB-H Open Standard, Encourages
Competition and Innovation for Burgeoning Digital TV Market
- Apr 18, 2005 01:22 PM (PR Newswire)
Crown Castle Mobile Media, DiBcom, Freescale, Intel, Microtune, Nokia, O2,
S-Communications, Silicon & Software Systems Ltd (S3), Texas Instruments,
TTPCom, and UDcast Publicly Promote and Drive DVB-H to Mobile Phones
LAS VEGAS, April 18 /PRNewswire/ -- A number of players in the
wireless industry today announced support for DVB-H (digital video
broadcast -- handheld), an open industry standard for the delivery of
mobile broadcast digital TV (DTV) for the U.S., European and Asian
marketplaces. DVB-H is experiencing broad support across the wireless
ecosystem, including partners and competitors alike, who are working
together to foster competition and innovation for the growing digital
TV market.
Such companies include wireless operators such as O2; multicast
network operators such as Crown Castle Mobile Media (NYSE:CCI);
wireless infrastructure providers such as UDcast; handset
manufacturers such as Nokia (NYSE:NOK); software stack providers such
as Silicon & Software Systems Ltd (S3); and semiconductor providers
such as DiBcom, Freescale (NYSE:FSL), Intel (Nasdaq: INTC),
Microtune(R), Inc. (Nasdaq: TUNE), S-Communications, Texas
Instruments Incorporated (NYSE:TXN) (TI) and TTPCom. Each company
listed, plus many others worldwide, is putting support behind DVB-H in
efforts to provide an open environment for mobile operators and
broadcasters to reach the largely un-tapped but promising digital
mobile TV market.
DVB-H is an open, non-proprietary standard that will foster growth
throughout the wireless market, allowing mobile DTV handsets and
services to reach the mass market faster and at a lower cost to
consumers. Additionally, DVB-H delivers an improved end user
experience over current video streaming services that utilize cellular
networks and reduce network capacity for voice services. Broadcast
digital TV for mobile phones is a large opportunity for operators,
broadcasters, handset manufacturers and silicon providers as it opens
up new opportunities and provides additional users and revenue-
generating services for digital TV services.
- http://finance.lycos.com/home/news/story.asp?story=48439463
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 21:05:34 -0400
From: Monty Solomon <monty@roscom.com>
Subject: Markey Targets Credit ID Theft: Wants Security Freeze
Markey targets credit ID theft: Wants to put security freeze power in
consumers' hands
By Thomas Caywood and Tom Mashberg
Stunned by the ease with which identity thieves are obtaining credit
cards in other people's names, a Bay State congressman is weighing
federal legislation that would permit U.S. consumers to clap a padlock
on their credit files.
http://news.bostonherald.com/politics/view.bg?articleid=79018
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 21:07:02 -0400
From: Monty Solomon <monty@roscom.com>
Subject: Congress Renews Interest in Identity Theft
By Associated Press
WASHINGTON -- Responding to outrage from consumers whose personal
information has been stolen from companies, Congress is primed to pass
new laws to try to prevent break-ins and to require businesses to
confess to customers when private data is taken.
The government's new interest in requiring such embarrassing
disclosures reverses years of efforts by the FBI and U.S. prosecutors
to shield corporations that have been victims of hackers from bad
publicity by keeping such crimes out of headlines.
But now, consumers want to know if their private information has
been stolen.
The Senate is considering at least two proposals to crack down on
companies suffering breaches of private customer information. The
Federal Trade Commission's chairwoman has endorsed the idea and the
Senate Judiciary Committee's chairman hinted this week that a new law
might be inevitable.
http://business.bostonherald.com/technologyNews/view.bg?articleid=78688
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 23:29:29 -0400
From: Monty Solomon <monty@roscom.com>
Subject: Re: Credit Information Stolen From DSW Stores
COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) -- Thieves who accessed a DSW Shoe Warehouse
database obtained 1.4 million credit card numbers and the names on
those accounts _ 10 times more than investigators estimated last
month.
DSW Shoe Warehouse said Monday that it has contact information for
about half of those people and started sending letters notifying them
of the thefts, which happened at 108 stores in 25 states between
November and February. A list of the stores is available on the
company's Web site.
The stolen information did not include home addresses or personal
identification numbers, the Columbus, Ohio-based company said in a
statement.
The company, a subsidiary of Retail Ventures Inc., announced the
thefts last month after notifying federal authorities and credit card
companies. At the time, the Secret Service said only that information
involving more than 100,000 people had been compromised.
Besides the credit card numbers, the thieves obtained driver's license
numbers and checking account numbers from 96,000 transactions
involving checks, the company said. Customer names, addresses and
Social Security numbers were not stolen, DSW said.
- http://finance.lycos.com/home/news/story.asp?story=48453610
------------------------------
From: cervantes77@hotmail.com
Subject: DSL 3 mbps
Date: 18 Apr 2005 13:55:31 -0700
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Is anybody getting 3 mbps on Verizon dsl in N.Y.? They're promoting
this speed for new customers on their web site. I'm a subscriber to
Verizon dsl but I'm only getting getting 1.5 mbps and am wondering if
they upgraded their system. Any info greatly appreciated.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 15:46:06 -0700
From: Danielle Young <danielle@usenix.org>
Subject: 3rd International Conference on Mobile Systems, Applications,
Join us in Seattle, June 6-8, 2005, for innovative, significant
research in the area of mobile and wireless systems. MobiSys 2005 will
bring together engineers, academic and industrial researchers, and
visionaries for 2.5 exciting days of sharing and learning about this
fast-moving field. The conference will feature refereed paper
presentations, a poster and demo session, a keynote address by Rick
Rashid of Microsoft Research, and a plenary session with Alfred
Spector of IBM Research.
Workshops:
MobiSys 2005 is co-located with two workshops for highly focused
discussions of new and emerging topics:
EESR '05: Workshop on End-to-End, Sense-and-Respond Systems,
Applications, and Services
WiTMeMo '05: International Workshop on Wireless Traffic
Measurements and Modeling
Both workshops will take place Sunday, June 5, 2005. Registration for
workshops is separate from MobiSys 2005 registration. To ensure a
productive workshop environment, attendance will be limited.
------------------------------
From: Michael D. Sullivan <userid@camsul.example.invalid>
Subject: A "What-if" Regarding Diebold
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 04:12:27 GMT
If the Papal election were conducted with efficient, fraud-resistant
Diebold electronic voting machines instead of old-fashioned paper
ballots, what would be the effect on the papacy? One result of such an
election is at <http://avogadro.smugmug.com/gallery/490073/1/20006937>.
Michael D. Sullivan
Bethesda, MD (USA)
(Replace "example.invalid" with "com" in my address.)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 00:20:42 EDT
From: Dan Lanciani <ddl@danlan.com>
Subject: Re: Getting Serious About the War on Spam
bonomi@host122.r-bonomi.com (Robert Bonomi) wrote:
> There are various ways of "coping" effectively:
> You can use _different_ e-mail addresses for different functions
> (e.g., one for the newsgroup moderator 'submission' address,
> a different one for submission "acks", another one for
> outgoing Telecom-Digest mailings, and yet another one for
> "personal" communications.)
> You can then apply _different_ rules for each address. e.g.:
> You can whitelist everybody that is subscribed to Digest mailing-list.
> You can auto-accept any message that is a "reply" to a
> newsgroup posting.
> You can whitelist other "known" correspondents.
> You can auto-accept any message that has a certain "magic word" at the
>
beginning of the subject line.
> You can then, fairly safely, _reject_ messages that lack the
> 'magic word'
> in the subject line, *with* a notice telling the sender that the
> magic word (and what it is) is required for message acceptance.
> Doing these things 'right' requires some fairly close integration with the
> mail-server itself.
> BUT, when done right, can be _very_ effective.
> I've been running a custom-developed system (along the above lines)
> for roughly the last year.
Some months ago I described a similar system that I've been using for
considerably longer than one year. (My system is actually even more
similar to what you describe than one might infer from my original
description in that the magic word approach is exactly what I use for
the challenge/response component, though I'm prepared to extend this
if spammers ever bother to include the magic word.)
You pointed out (correctly) that spam often includes a forged but valid
from address whose owner might then receive my bounce notice explaining
how to bypass the filter. You went on to accuse me of spamming and
mail-bombing such innocent parties.
Since you also now advocate rejecting possible spam with a notice, can
you please explain exactly how you avoid the misdirected bounce
behavior that you find objectionable?
Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com
[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Thank you very much! You said it
very well. PAT]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 17:30:20 -0400
From: Fred Goldstein <fgoldstein.SeeBelowSpambait@wn2.wn.net>
Subject: Re: Can I Substitute NiMH Battery for NiCd in Cordless Phone
A contrary position to what several others have said ...
I have a Panasonic cordless phone that came with a NiCd battery. The
battery failed within a year, as NiCd cordless batteries usually do.
I found a NiMH substitute, designed for a different Panasonic phone
but with the same voltage, shape and connector. So I installed it.
The NiMH has a better lifespan per charge than the NiCD ever did. As
to how long it'll last, I can't say, because I forget exactly how many
years it has been since I made the switch, but it has been several
years, and the NiMH battery is still going strong, maybe just
beginning to show a few signs of age. On the other hand I've never
met a NiCd that I really liked.
There are some differences in the ideal charging parameters, but to a
considerable extent, they overlap. Of course Your Mileage May Vary.
-- fred "at" ionary.com
------------------------------
From: jmeissen@aracnet.com
Subject: Re: Surveillance Cameras More Common Everyday
Date: 18 Apr 2005 21:47:31 GMT
Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com
In article <telecom24.170.14@telecom-digest.org>, Pat wrote:
> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: The one you mention, and three or four
> other cameras are used at Times Square (34th and Broadway if my
> memory is correct) in the program Webcam Watcher, an interesting piece
> of software for Windows.
You can use Google as the poor-man's version of the same thing. There
are a number of searches that return interesting results, and many web
pages have documented them. This one is one of the more comprehensive:
http://www.prodownload.com.ar/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1955
I find myself watching public places all over the world as an idle
pastime.
john-
------------------------------
From: Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net>
Subject: Re: SprintPCS Lousy Web Interface
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:10:58 -0700
Organization: Glorb Internet Services, http://www.glorb.com
D. M. Hendricks wrote:
> Being a good citizen, I'd like to report the fraud incident with the
> phone number. Unfortunately, the caller ID was blocked on my Sprint
> phone. I called Sprint to get the number, but they said my billing
> cycle ended yesterday (a day after I received the call) and that they
> could not pull up calling history from that period (!!). She said I
> could either wait for my invoice in the mail or look it up online.
Jeez ... I really enjoy Sprint's service and they have good coverage
in my area, but some of their CSRs are dumber than a box of rocks. The
ones in the USA seem to do a great job for the most part, but the ones
working from overseas seem ill-trained and ill-informed. I'm getting
to the point where I'm going to start insisting to talk to a level-2
CSR or manager. Their service and coverage (and hold-time on calls to
customer service!) have gotten steadily better in the 4 1/2 years
since I started as a customer with them, but the quality of their CSRs
has declined.
Sprint doesn't *print* incoming phone numbers on the bill. For a
Sprint CSR not to know that is unacceptable.
No one prints incoming phone numbers on customer bills except
Cingular.
My argument has always been "I'm paying for the call, so I expect to
see who's calling me" -- but that didn't work with Verizon (I was both
an SPCS and Verizon Wireless customer from 12/00 to 6/04) nor did it
work with Sprint.
> Not wanting to wait for snail mail to report a phone number that will
> likely disappear in days, I tried to go online to check where the call
> originated from.
> Their MyPCS is an UNHOLY PILE OF HORSE MANURE. It's quite possibly
> the slowest interface I've ever used, taking ~10 minutes to load each
> page.
That might have been a problem between your ISP and Sprint. My
experience is that yes, sometimes the website is sluggish, but ten
minutes? I may have to occasionally wait 15-30 seconds, but that's it.
This IS the Internet we're talking about, and the information goes
through several ISP's/network backbones between Sprint and your ISP,
so it could be an issue at Sprint, at your ISP, or somewhere in
between. If you have continual problems, talk to your ISP and they may
be able to help you pinpoint where the bottleneck is. I've never had
that kind of delay in getting to the SPCS website.
> It's good to know that Sprint cares so much about fraud prevention.
> Why is it so terribly difficult to find out who called me?
All US carriers except Cingular have the wrongheaded idea that when
someone calls their customer, the caller has a right to privacy. Screw
that -- you have no such right when I'm paying per minute for you to
call me. If on a landline with a flat monthly fee, that's
different. Not on a cell phone where I have to count airtime
minutes. But again, Cingular is the only carrier in the industry with
a clue regarding incoming call details.
My argument is: I get call details on calls to 888-480-4638 because I
pay per minute for people to call my at that number. Why don't I get
the same courtesy from my cell carrier(s)? Come on. I don't even get
the phone number on my bill when my wife calls, and I know damned well
she doesn't block caller ID on her cell phone, so there *is* no
privacy issue for her ... the number shows up on my caller ID but not
on my bill!
(Sorry, you've just pressed one of my hot buttons :>)
JustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638)
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / sjsobol@JustThe.net / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
"The wisdom of a fool won't set you free"
--New Order, "Bizarre Love Triangle"
------------------------------
From: bonomi@host122.r-bonomi.com (Robert Bonomi)
Subject: Re: Internet Pioneer: VoIP is NOT Telephony
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 23:57:38 -0000
Organization: Widgets, Inc.
In article <telecom24.170.15@telecom-digest.org>,
Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
>> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: How would you then deal with 'phone
>> patches', the little devices which allow VHF/UHF radios to link into
>> the public phone network? Should they also be subject to the rules
>> of the public switched telephone network? PAT]
> Yes. Patched calls are subject to BOTH the rules of the public
> telephone network AND the rules of whatever radio channel is in use,
> because the call is handled by both services.
> --scott
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I guess what I meant to say was the
> person using the radio who issues certain tones to the base station
> where the 'phone patch' is located, who then makes outgoing phone
> calls over a (common, owned by the ham radio operator's club for
> example) phone line. Is that commonly-owned phone line, and the
> 'patch' device in the middle, and most important, the portable
> transciever (a two meter rig comes to mind) all subject to both
> radio and telco rules, for example, the 911 surcharge, and other
> fees on account of his transciever rig _can possibly_ be used on
> the phone network? What about the local number portability fee,
> etc? After all, he does have a _phone number_ (albiet shared in
> common with other club members) doesn't he? PAT]
NO, "he" does _not_ have a phone number. You cannot place a phone call
_to_ that ham by calling that number, for example.
The land-line is 'owned', and paid for, by "whomever it is" that owns/
operates the repeater with the phone-patch. Think of the transceivers
with the appropriate accessories to access the phone-patch as simply
multiple "extensions" on that single-number phone line. Land-line
"rules" say that there is a 911 surcharge _per_line_, paid by the line
owner -- it is a fixed amount, _regardless_ of how many 'extensions'
there are on that line. Same thing for the LNP fees.
"Land-line" fees are _not_ applicable to the "radio" portion of such a
call/service. Neither are land-line equipment requirements. And,
similarly, "radio" fees and equipment requirements do not apply to the
'land-line' portion of such a call/service.
Example: anything that is connected to the PSTN is required to have a
FCC registered (and -tested- rules-compliant) "network interface" --
what the phone companies sold/rented, once upon a time, as a "DAA". A
radio that is able to use a phone-patch to originate a call is *not*
required to have any such device. (Although the phone-patch, itself,
_is_.)
On the other hand, a call that traverses _both_ services, is
restricted to the "least common denominator" of the legal restrictions
on _each_ service. If a thing is proscribed on *either* kind of
operation, it cannot be legally done on a call that employs both kinds
of operations. e.g., on the aforementioned ham phone-patch it is
*illegal* (_criminally_ so!) for a ham radio operator to call the
neighborhood pizza joint to place an order.
Now, PSAP database locater requirements compliance raises
_interesting_ _questions_ as regards a "phone-patch" line. I'm not
knowledgeable enough on location-reporting requirements to even
_guess_ at how they apply in that kind of a situation. What do the
rules say for a phone line on a farm, where a _single_ POTS line is
connected to instruments in the house and the barn? No PBX or
anything, just the wires going out to the barn.
------------------------------
Date: 19 Apr 2005 03:53:56 -0000
From: gds@best.com
Subject: Re: PPC Advertising, Click Fraud, and Its Effect on Search Engines
Robert Bonomi (bonomi@host122.r-bonomi.com) wrote:
> With web-pages, there is *no*way* to estimate how many people see any
> particular ad. *OTHER* than to count how many times it was displayed.
> And that is not a "reliable, accurate" number, by any means. What it
> is, however, is the "best available" data for estimating.
I realize this, actually. However, this "best available" method of
estimation is what is in dispute (otherwise there would be no
lawsuits).
> Consider a "fleet" of 500,000 "zombie" PCs, scattered across three
> continents.
> Each machine, _once_a_day_, at a random time, connects to a given
> web-page, without anybody in front of the machine.
> Now, just _what_ are you going to detect?
I have described many scenarios such as this where there is no
reliable way to differentiate them from clickstreams where the users
do not find what they are looking for at the advertiser's site, or
decide (non-fraudulently) not to buy, or are just window shopping.
I guess I don't understand the general tone of your response. It
seems you are agreeing with me that PPC is a poor business model. If
you feel that it is superior to, say, paying fixed fees for a certain
period of time, I'd like to know why. The advertisers can use
information that comes from companies such as Nielsen NetRatings to
estimate how many people use a search engine, and what queries they
submit to it, to determine a fair bid for an ad buy. Such information
is no worse than what is used to determine rates for TV or radio ads.
--gregbo
[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: As for myself, I cannot really picture
'five hundred thousand zombie computers scattered across three
continents'. If so, under whose coordination? A gang of crackers all
working in concert to cheat some advertiser's competitor, by running
up his advertising bill? Seems sort of improbable to me. PAT]
------------------------------
TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly but not
exclusively to telecommunications topics. It is circulated anywhere
there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of
networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, Yahoo Groups, and
other forums. It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the
moderated newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'.
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Please contact Jay Boyington for additional information at
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End of TELECOM Digest V24 #171
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