TELECOM Digest     Sun, 6 Mar 2005 18:33:00 EST    Volume 24 : Issue 98

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Pricing Comparison, was: Vonage's Citron Says VoIP ... (Danny Burstein)
    Re: Municipal Wi-FI and Incumbents (Tony P.)
    Re: Vonage (John Levine)
    Re: New Monopoly in Dept Stores-Federated and May Co to Merge (Wesrock)
    Re: Last Laugh! Virgin Mobile Canada (n28110)
    Re: FCC Reaches Telco Settlement to Stop Blocking VOIP (Isaiah Beard)
    Re: Paris Hilton's Sidekick Hacked (Dr. Joel M. Hoffman)
    Re: Buyouts of AT&T, MCI Sign of Long Distance's Demise (Geoffrey Welsh)
    Re: GSM Cell Density in Metropolitan Areas (Dana)
    Trying to Collect on Derek South Judgment (Markus_Danz@hotmail.com)

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Danny Burstein <dannyb@panix.com>
Subject: Pricing Comparison, was: Vonage's Citron Says VoIP...
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 22:52:24 UTC
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC


In <telecom24.97.14@telecom-digest.org> joel@exc.com (Dr. Joel
M. Hoffman) writes:

> In the end, the only reason VoIP is so cheap is that it passes the
> costs off to other sectors. 

Or, to put the shoe on the other foot:

In the middle, a key reason that VOIP is so cheap is that huge amounts
of secondary fees, taxes, and contributions (many of which do, in
fact, get kicked over to other parts of the legacy telcos and other
powerful beneficiaries) have been added to the traditional phone bill,
raising it way above the base cost. As of now at least, very few of
these have hit the VOIP product line.


Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
		     dannyb@panix.com 
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]



[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Yeah, and can you imagine there are
folks who want to place the blame on VOIP because it is so
inexpensive; they seem to feel all those taxes and fees the landline
telcos pay are justified. Why they want to blame VOIP instead of
placing the blame of the government, squarely where it belongs, is
anyone's guess.  PAT]

------------------------------

From: Tony P. <kd1s@nospamplease.cox.reallynospam.net>
Subject: Re: Municipal Wi-FI and Incumbents
Organization: ATCC
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 19:16:29 -0500


In article <telecom24.96.12@telecom-digest.org>, 
kd1s@nospamplease.cox.reallynospam.net says:

> In article <telecom24.95.7@telecom-digest.org>, cjmebox-
> telecomdigest@yahoo.com says:

>> This is from yesterday's Guardian. It includes an interesting
>> juxtaposition of Verizon's and BT's positions on municipal Wi-Fi
>> networks.

>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/online/story/0,,1428626,00.html

>> Excerpt:
>> .....
>> So far, so good. But city hall soon ran into serious problems that
>> could stifle the wireless dreams of municipalities across the world. US
>> cable companies, which see citizen-funded networks as a threat to their
>> commercial fiefdoms, backed a bill that effectively outlawed municipal
>> wireless in the state of Pennsylvania. In December, the state passed a
>> bill forbidding any municipality in the state from running an
>> "information network". Only a last-minute deal with Verizon, the
>> state's de facto monopoly provider of broadband, saved Philadelphia's
>> vision. Verizon promised to allow the city's network, but at the
>> expense of the rest of the state. At least 15 US states are considering
>> similar telco-backed bills to ban municipal networks.

>> To Dianah Neff, Philadelphia's chief information officer, municipal
>> wireless is no mere luxury. Neff, a veteran public servant, sees
>> municipal networks as a potential leveller in a city where 70% of state
>> school children receive free school meals. "We have a vibrant
>> downtown," she says, "but we need to make sure all our neighbourhoods
>> can compete in the knowledge economy.

>> ..........

>> Chris Clark, chief executive for BT Wireless Broadband, said the UK's
>> biggest broadband supplier would not be taking the same approach as
>> Verizon. "The community wireless projects, which started in an
>> environment of concern about rural service, are evolving into providing
>> all sorts of innovative services," he says. "It would be a pity to see
>> such innovation stifled. More recently, a number of metropolitan
>> wireless projects have been in the pipeline. BT is fully supportive of
>> these initiatives."

>> TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: City of Independence was looking very
>> favorably at muni-wi-fi for our town, but SBC -- Southwestern Bell -- 
>> put a kibosh on it, threatening to get the state commission to do a
>> rule like that proposed for Pennsylvania. SBC did not like the idea
>> at all of a community giving away for free the DSL service they
>> charge an arm and a leg for.   PAT]

> And we all know why Verizon and SBC don't like the idea. First - Skype
> is now available for the Palm OS. So tell me, what happens when for
> say $10 a month you can use the muni network. You load Skype on your
> laptop or PDA and use it to make and receive calls while in the city.

> This kills both wire line and wireless. The incumbent carriers are 
> scared. They can see that their years of reliance on tariff are coming 
> to a crashing halt. 

> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I did something sort of exciting for
> me a couple days ago. Our local McDonalds has a WiFi network but I
> have never seen anyone use it. So when I went over for lunch the
> other day, I took along my IBM ThinkPad laptop (it is a really
> ancient model, the 770, but it is networked both with wires and
> with my wireless NetGear router card) and played around on line 
> with it while I had lunch. PAT]

Speaking of which, I noted a Cisco wireless router hanging from the 
ceiling of my local Shaw's (Aka Albertsons and boy do I hate that fact!) 
today. One of these days I'll borrow a friends iPaq with the 802.11b 
card in it and see if I can connect. 

------------------------------

Date: 6 Mar 2005 00:36:11 -0000
From: John Levine <johnl@iecc.com>
Subject: Re: Vonage
Organization: I.E.C.C., Trumansburg NY USA


> They definitely have some problems in different parts of the country
> but my service in the northeast has been rock solid. I wonder -- I
> know I'm on a Paetec switch so is it a Focal issue?

No, my service which became unsuably bad was switched by Paetec, too.

Regards,

John R. Levine, IECC, POB 727, Trumansburg NY 14886 +1 607 330 5711
johnl@iecc.com, Mayor, http://johnlevine.com, 
Member, Provisional board, Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial E-mail

------------------------------

From: Wesrock@aol.com
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 20:05:11 EST
Subject: Re: New Monopoly in Dept Stores -- Federated and May Co to Merge


In a message dated Sat, 5 Mar 2005 17:48:51 +0200, henry999@eircom.net 
(Henry) writes:

> We went into a bar where there wasn't much happening and started
> playing pool. There was a sign on the wall that said something like:
> 'In order to play pool you must show your draft card" -- the draft card,
> of course, being required in those days when a male turned 18.

> Well, we shot pool for a while and nobody seemed bothered -- nobody
> asked to see the cards, anyway -- so we started to wonder: If they
> think we're 18, maybe we can get a beer? I still had some growing to
> do at that point; I was about 5'3" and I wrestled in the 112-pound
> class. My friend was taller, heavier and shaving every day, so he went
> up to the bar while I sat at the table. By golly, a minute later there
> he was, coming back with two bottles of Coors.

> Cheers,

> Henry

     And it was 3.2% beer in Kansas 40 years ago.  Anything stronger
was illegal then, in both Kansas and Oklahoma.

     As Pat says, Kansas, like other places, has changed over the past
40 years.  Especially towns like Wellington, on the Kansas Turnpike
with its volume of travelers the towns want to lure, and with a very
viable supermarket (Dillon's, the Kansas operation of Kroger's), which
Independence seems to lack.  Wellington has a WalMart supercenter,
too, near the Dillon's store.

     The county of which Wellington is the county seat produces more
wheat than any other county in the United States, and with the wheat
and tourist traffic and a crew change point on the BNSF (formerly
Santa Fe) Chicago-Los Angeles main line, it's a pretty prosperous
place.  (The county history museum has a great deal of local Santa Fe
history.)


Wes Leatherock
wesrock@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2005 02:21:52 GMT
From: n28110 <n28110@hotmail.nospammoporfavor.com>
Subject: Re: Last Laugh! Virgin Mobile Canada
Organization: Shaw Residential Internet


Dear Virgin Mobile Canada,

I'm too cheap to buy service from a company that has a roaming
agreement with U.S. carriers. Can I get cheap cellular in the
U.S. too?

<Exp315@canada.com> wrote in message 
news:telecom24.96.15@telecom-digest.org:

> Question to Virgin Mobile Canada: will your Canadian service link up
> with your U.S. service?

> Answer: We are experiencing technical difficulties. Your email was not
> sent to us, please try again later.

> Way to inspire confidence guys!

------------------------------

From: Isaiah Beard <sacredpoet@sacredpoet.com>
Subject: Re: FCC Reaches Telco Settlement to Stop Blocking VOIP
Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2005 09:11:19 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com


hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:

> Danny Burstein wrote:

>> "We saw a problem, and we acted swiftly to ensure that Internet voice
>> service remains a viable option for consumers", said FCC Chairman
>> Michael K. Powell.

> I don't understand.

> Why couldn't the consumers simply switch to another ISP?  Why did the
> FCC have to intervene?

You seem to think that everyone has a choice when it comes to
broadband.  Unfortunately, most do not.  DSL does not reach every
household, and cable companies do not always offer the quality of
service thaat one would expect in a broadband connection, if the cable
company even feels it is cost effective to provide such a service in
a particular area.

And even in areas where both "last miles" are served, I still wouldn't 
call that a variety.

> Why does VOIP have to get special govt protection not normally offered
> to other products and services in the free marketplace? 

It is not getting special government protection.  On the other hand,
the duopolies are getting special government regulation, because they
have demonstrated in the past (and are demonstrating again) that they
fully intend to prevent other players from offering services.

> In other words, if my local store doesn't carry a particular product
> I want, the govt won't come in and order that store to carry said
> product.

No, because that store doesn't have an exclusive right-of-way or
franchise agreement with the municipality.  Cable and phone companies
however, do have such agreements in place, and thus they are often the
only two providers (again, assuming both serve your area) that can
physically offer the service.

If Krogers, Costco, Food Lion, Path Mark, Wal-Mart or what-have-you,
however, secured an exclusive agreement to be the ONLY store in your
town, and they would ONLY carry certain brands of milk, you can bet
that some sort of regulatory body would want to intervene.

> Now if it was a regulated local telephone company that failed to pass
> on calls I would understand since they have certain obligations being
> a common carrier.   But I don't believe ISPs have any common carrier
> obligations nor privileges 

Well sir, you believe wrong. :) A dialup ISP may not have such
exclusive agreements, but then dial up and VoIP are often mutually
exclusive.  Vonage isn't really happy unless it's running over
broadband, and for now, braodband choices are still quite limited.

E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Paris Hilton's Sidekick Hacked
Organization: Excelsior Computer Services
From: joel@exc.com (Dr. Joel M. Hoffman)
Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2005 16:35:20 GMT


> Paris Hilton's address book, famously kept on a T-Mobile Sidekick, has
> been popping up all over the internet after someone managed to figure
> out her password.

Do we know for sure that this was just a guessed password?

-Joel
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please feed the 35mm lens/digicam databases:  http://www.exc.com/photography
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: Geoffrey Welsh <reply@newsgroup.please>
Subject: Re: Buyouts of AT&T, MCI Sign of Long Distance's Demise
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 14:10:56 -0500


hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:

> My employer, with its thousands of employees, obviously pays more than
> $50/month for business long distance service.  The effective per
> minute rate is pretty low.  However, the point remains that there's
> still a cost to it.

One of my employer's U.S. offices recently relocated and our friendly
CLEC offered us a nice bundle which included flat rate lines -- where
flat rate meant nationwide calling, not just local.  These days the
price difference between local & long distance calls (or flat rate
service) is fading.


Geoffrey Welsh <Geoffrey [dot] Welsh [at] bigfoot [dot] com>
Ambidextrous?  No, I said I'm ambinonscattous - I don't give a crap
either way! 

------------------------------

From: Dana <raff242@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: GSM Cell Density in Metropolitan Areas
Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2005 11:40:02 -0900
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com


John Bartley wrote:

>> enrico <enrico_groups@libero.it> wrote:

>>> What is the average (or range) value for GSM cell (i.e. base station,
>>> antenna, ..)  density in metropolitan areas? (e.g. in cities like
>>> London, Paris, Rome.)

>>> Is there any publicly available information about the topic?

>>> Please note that I am *not* asking for actual base station location,
>>> as I know that information is protected,

> On 2 Mar 2005 12:48:42 GMT, Koos van den Hout
> <koos+newsposting@kzdoos.xs4all.nl> wrote:

>> Ow? I can imagine that the cell phone company doesn't want to give a
>> map if I ask nicely, but with some simple AT commands I can make my
>> phone show the current cell number and alert me when it changes. Add a
>> gps unit, some logging software and I can map their cell numbers. I've
>> been playing with this, see http://idefix.net/~koos/gsmgps.html

>> In my country (the Netherlands) I can find the actual location by
>> checking the register of antenna licenses.

> However, T-Mobile, here Stateside, blocks the data for the local
> cell's identity, as per a German ham who has an HP 6315 on T-Mobile
> while he's here.

T-Mobile does not have a policy in place to block the cell identity of
their cell sites in the states.  And all sites in the states are
listed with the FCC, so it is possible to look up in the fcc database
and see how many sites are in use for a paticular region or city.

------------------------------

From: Dana <raff242@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: GSM Cell Density in Metropolitan Areas
Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2005 11:41:21 -0900
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com


Koos van den Hout wrote:

> enrico <enrico_groups@libero.it> wrote:

>> What is the average (or range) value for GSM cell (i.e. base station,
>> antenna, ..)  density in metropolitan areas? (e.g. in cities like
>> London, Paris, Rome.)

>> Is there any publicly available information about the topic?

>> Please note that I am *not* asking for actual base station location,
>> as I know that information is protected,

> Ow? I can imagine that the cell phone company doesn't want to give a
> map if I ask nicely, but with some simple AT commands I can make my
> phone show the current cell number and alert me when it changes. Add a
> gps unit, some logging software and I can map their cell numbers. I've
> been playing with this, see http://idefix.net/~koos/gsmgps.html

> In my country (the Netherlands) I can find the actual location by
> checking the register of antenna licenses.

In America the same info is available via the FCC. 

> Koos van den Hout,           PGP keyid RSA/1024 0xCA845CB5 via keyservers
> koos@kzdoos.xs4all.nl        or DSS/1024 0xF0D7C263                  -?)
> Fax +31-30-2817051       Camp Wireless, wireless Internet access     /\\
> http://idefix.net/~kos/  at campsites http://www.camp-wireless.org/ _\_V

------------------------------

From: Markus_Danz@hotmail.com
Subject: Trying to Collect on Derek South Judgment
Date: 6 Mar 2005 12:36:37 -0800
Organization: http://groups.google.com


Trying to collect judgment on Derek South of Tao Software, England and
Dallas, Texas, USA. Large judgment, fee paid. Can anyone help? 

Danke,

Markus_Danz@hotmail.com

------------------------------


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End of TELECOM Digest V24 #98
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